Iranian/Middle Eastern Male phobia
I am facing this phobia of mine for a while now. I have a very severe phobia about men who are raised in Middle East region including Iran of course. I just can't trust them. When I see a guy from that region, a series of assumption about them comes to my mind just like one of these pop up windows you see: that they are not comfortable with issues regarding sexuality, they don't, in their heart, believe in the equality of men and women, they might have sex with you but they are not open minded about it...In general they have learned how to pretend(even to the degree that will deceive themselves) that they are pro-women rights and open minded people but they are not and this can be easily be verified by a relatively smart person who is sort of familiar with the culture and last but not least they behave so territorial as if any female friend in their vicinity is part of the territory and is only allowed to hangout with the limited collection of the guys who are in the gang!
The result? I have developed this very subjective intelligence about them which rules out most of them at the first ten minutes of talk. For that small percentage that I am not sure about, I will be very very alert about what I do. If the guy is not interested in me, I will make sure to talk a lot about women issues and politics and that sort of stuff to see his reactions and in the mean time not to let him know of one single detail of my private life except the parts you can find in google. This later point is very important because if he is not open minded then he can be a very dangerous person to your reputation.
If he is interested, then I have to go through a series of traditional steps that I don't believe in, simply because I am afraid that I might find out later that he is not as open minded as I thought! You have to keep the distance, be relatively formal, and of course forget about sex for at least the first few months if you are thinking about a long term thing( I can't even imagine to have a short term thing with one of them!)...Not that I really believe in doing these but if I don't want to eliminate the option of dating Iranian guys I better be safe than sad. That's my policy. I know it's not the most aggressive one but works for me.
The result? I have developed this very subjective intelligence about them which rules out most of them at the first ten minutes of talk. For that small percentage that I am not sure about, I will be very very alert about what I do. If the guy is not interested in me, I will make sure to talk a lot about women issues and politics and that sort of stuff to see his reactions and in the mean time not to let him know of one single detail of my private life except the parts you can find in google. This later point is very important because if he is not open minded then he can be a very dangerous person to your reputation.
If he is interested, then I have to go through a series of traditional steps that I don't believe in, simply because I am afraid that I might find out later that he is not as open minded as I thought! You have to keep the distance, be relatively formal, and of course forget about sex for at least the first few months if you are thinking about a long term thing( I can't even imagine to have a short term thing with one of them!)...Not that I really believe in doing these but if I don't want to eliminate the option of dating Iranian guys I better be safe than sad. That's my policy. I know it's not the most aggressive one but works for me.
posted by Anar @ 11:06 PM
16 comments
16 Comments:
As a fellow iranian guy at cornell, i have to give some insight.. What seems to be the most important thing is to know ones self. People who want to get the best of both worlds usually get nothing. Being yourself helps the most.. Whats more important is your own feelings and not if the guy like you or not, hence behave this way or not. its whether u like him or not that counts.
you want to act "traditional" in front of a guy that "might" be interested in case he is not open minded!! well if he isnt open minded then what do you want to do with him in the first place when you claim you are liberal and not in your own skin with a traditional guy? Being yourself is the best thing because guys wont be confused plus deep down guys know how each grl is because as u said they talk. I agree with you on one point though, and its not something to be proud about when we as iranian men hear gossip from the likes of arabs guys about our women, so they dont help ones reputation or chances at all.. as an iranian guy what interests us is someone who wont play mind games, isnt seasonal, and gives us a secure feeling about her strenghth of character. that way we wont worry when being with her..Being passive or changing with the wind for different occassions doesnt help, at least in a small community.
I assume you know me and I don't consider it polite to tell what ever you wanted and not even put your name. At least have the guts to stand behind your word.
You misinterpreted what I said. If I am sure, or let's say that I have a slight doubt that the guy is not open minded then I won't even waste my time with him especially if he is interested. What I said about being traditional was when I have no evidence, yet, at the first couple of meetings that he is tradistional. In that case, I will hangout more BUT I will always be alert. Being alert is different than not being OK with onself. I am alert around any thing that I consider danger and to be honest an Iranian man like you who is racist and territorial enough to think that hanging out with "Arab" men is not good for "your" women's reputation is enough for me to justify this alertness.
As I said, most of you think you are open minded but you are not and your comment proves it.
P.S. I changed my mind. don't say your name. I don't wanna know it.
Pantea, I will have to think some before commenting. Let me find my interpersonal hat first. :)
Pantea khanoom,
For a Ph.D. student you sure have a lot of time to thing about these things... ;-)
Have you ever considered the flip side to that coin? That Iranian women are money hungry players, always have a backup guy, are shallow, are most insecure, have a lot of unresolved issues, have a complex that guys (particularly Iranian guys) actually even care about their sex life, when they meet an Iranian guy all of a sudden are all innocent, are pathological liars, and etc.
Neither attitude is right; don't over analyze everything... :-)
Pantea joon.....
I am very impressed with the way you articulated your thoughts!!!
I am not sure I completely understood what you were saying....must be 'cos I lack interaction with people from that region....
Whenever you feel like talking about it, you should come around to 310 and I'd like to listen to what you have to say!!!!
-Yashoda
You know what? One thing is true, you should just be yourself. If the guy is worthwhile, he will respect you and what you believe in. If you play roles just because of preventing gossip, you might waste your time. People who want to talk will, even if it's not true. When you're yourself and you make a friend, you make a real one.
I think you are absolutely right to be on alert while starting sth with sb (not necessarily iranian) who you dont know. That's the reasonable way and I go through some "experiment and analysis" in the meantime to have a better idea of my partner.
In addition, I believe that we iranians (both girls and boys), compared to americans, have a lot of problems in our interpersonal relationships. Thats obviously because of the society-culture in which we have been brought up. So from the men's side, women are "money hungry", not independent, insecure, etc and from the women's side, men are not open-minded, traditional, etc. Most of it is true and all is the result of some bad aspects of our culture that supports men and women inequality, religious thinking and not rationalism. However, I have seen some people that exaggerate and relate everything "blamable" with "being iranian" which is not true. I mean some so-called problems are basicly because of gender or personal character and not nationality.
All of us (iranians) are affected by this phenomenon, some more, some less. So it is no use blaming the other side since it is neither "my" fault nor "yours". The important thing here is whether one can change and how much effort s/he puts for that and how much support s/he will receive from the other side..... and still a lot on my mind that i am not sharing since i have to go!
oops! the last one is mine!
babak
wowwww what a discussion! Well, as a fellow sister I have to support Pantea anyway!
I personally think though that it is not that difficult to know that whether the other person could be your type or not. The only way to know it though would be through being yourself and Letting the other person know who you really are. Now this doesn't mean that he has to know a lot about your personal life but I think he should have a clear understanding of your character. I thin there are somethings in everybody's life that should not be talked about with even one's spouse... So the matter of being yourself is different from the matter of sharing everything personal to you.
Also, I think that both men and women who were raised in Iran are victims of the bad parts of our culture. There is no point in fearing Iranian men. If you consider yourself to be a lucky woman who happens to be more liberal than the average Iranian woman, there definitely could be an equivalent for you among Iranian men.
I do agree with you that finding this "special" person could be hard but it could be worth the try. In general, I agree with Carmen Gloria: You should be yorself to make sure that the person you find is a real one.
*** I never said that you are not yourself by the way!!! Not at all! I just mean that it is impossible to be liked by everyone if one is true to her values. The people who don't like you, will always gossip about you. So don't worry about it! If you worry too much, then you wouldn't enjoy the journey.
I agree and disagree!
I agree lots of men unfortunately behave exactly the way you described. I agree lots of them don't believe in any of the ideas you mentioned. Sometimes I joke about it with my friends [mostly white guys] telling them "I'm glad I don't have a daughter since you bastards are out there!"
But I disagree we label all middle-eastern men as evils. I know lots of good guys from Iran (I know only a few Arabs so I won't talk about them). They are great guys and I think they can make their girlfriends/wives very happy. I know lots of bad guys from other parts of the world. I believe in individuality of human beings. You can find good people and bad peole- including men and women- all around the world. Every nation has its own stigma: Jews are stingy, Latinos are in drug bussiness, Middle-easterns are terrorists, Americans are red-necks, etc. That's the part I disagree.
Just as an example, I remember reading in the news: "number of women who go to hospital rises dramatically each time Scotish national team of soccer loses in world cup". Why? Their angry drunk husbands beat them to death because they are angry about the result of the game!
Pantea joon, I am sorry that I did not comment sooner to this post. I have been wrestling with income tax forms for the past several days.
It is hard for me to comment about this post because: one, I am not a woman; and two, I am not Iranian. However, you are my friend and so I will try my best. You have had some bad experiences with Iranian men in the past, and so it is understandable that you have some fears and it is hard for you to trust them. I have known a lot of non-Iranian men who do not see women as their equals. So, avoiding Iranian men may not solve the problem of finding a man that you like and who believes as you do about the equality of women. My good friend Farzad is an Iranian man who always treated women quite well. He dated a lot of Iranian women, but he ended up marrying an American woman. He frequently complained to me that the Iranian girls that he dated were too high maintanence. Now, I'm not sure exactly what that means, and I certainly am not saying that you are that way. Mainly, I mention him because it seems to me that Iranian men and women seem to have different expectations of what they want from each other. I presume that has something to do with the way that Iranian girls and boys are raised. Maybe you can tell me if that is true.
Let me give you a few things to think about. Do you know what you want from a man right now or in the next few years? I ask because you have said that you would like to get a job working for the U.N. If you get such a job, you could be sent to any country in the world. So, would you like a relationship for the next couple of years until you get split up by having to move to another country? This is just an example. You have to decide what you want from a man, and from a relationship. When you are sure of what you want, then maybe it will be easier to find such a person. I do think that you should always try to be yourself. You said that you have to go through a series of traditional steps if a man is interested in you. Well, maybe these steps are getting in the way of you finding what you want. Personally, I never appreciated women who expected me to play some sort of ritual game with them. The women that I liked best were honest, sincere, and unafraid of saying exactly what they thought or believed. Maybe if you responded to men in this way, you would be able to quickly weed out those who you would not be interested in. I guess what I am trying to say is that you can find a man who is compatable with you if you are not afraid to let him see the woman that you are. I hope this helps. :)
David,
I really liked the way you put it. I agree.
As an after-thought... some women (if not all) have a list of what they want in their ideal man. Some men think that this list gets smaller with age. Mine got longer with time. I think yours is getting longer too. The more you learn, the more accurate your specifications. There's nothing wrong with that.
You're so stupid and retarded. Your mentality is so far stuck behind the times that its beyond words.
To the above commentor: whatever!
I am afraid no good never comes out of Iranian men. They don't know women and they don't know women, and they never tried to understand what a woman's world looks like, and in part we women are faulty. Our emotions are always ahead of our head and we are too much passionate about marraige and life as a couple. While we should go ahead, live our own lives and do our own job and never ever feel dependant on men. That is what I found in myself, I don't know how general it could be but this is my experience.
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